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11 Comments »

  1. Good synthetics (Mobile 1, Amsoil and others) are excellent oils.  Think
    of them as having all the good and none of the bad that mineral oils do
    (e.g. paraffin, sulfur, etc)


    Ed

    "The longer I live, the more I learn.  The more I learn, the more I
    know.
    The more I know, the more I realize how little I really know!"

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  2. In article <19980924042128.02285.00001…@ng27.aol.com>,
      thepla…@aol.com (ThePlayur) wrote:

    > I’ve noticed everyone talking about how Mobile 1 synthetic is an excellent
    oil.
    >  I’ve been using Pennzoil 10w-30 and I’m thinking about changing to the Mobile
    > since my car has about 150k miles.  My question is, is it really worth the
    > extra $3/quart?  Anyone notice a difference on wear?

    In my opinion (which can be far from humble), any sythetic is leaps and
    bounds better than dead dino oils.  The basic premis is that a fossil oil
    starts its "life" as a mess of many different chemicals, chock full of
    impurities.  The multiple refining processes are there to remove all the
    impurities they can (which can hinder lubricant abilities, and some even
    dangerous enough on their own in a high-friction, high-pressure, soft-metal
    situation), then goes throguh further processing to try to take out and add
    compounds to produce a sludge that holds a given consistancy over a certain
    temperature range.

    A synthetic, on the other hand, starts its life as a pure, "benign"
    substance, to which other pure compounds are added in a prescribed and
    controlled manner to produce a lubricrant that also holds a given consistancy
    over a certain temperature range.  The exact ingredients are known, as are
    their lubricant/temperature qualities.  Nothing is left to circumstance.

    A fossil oil can still contain many unnecessary, and possibly harmful
    ingredients that aren’t removed in the refining process.

    Not to mention, the consistancy of sythetics can be controlled so well, that
    they have been designed to flow at room temperature and below (ie, the temp
    of your motor at start-up, when there is minimal lubrication in the engine
    and oil needs to be introduced as quickly as possible).  As those cheesy ad
    compaigns remind us time and time again, starting and stopping is hard on
    motors, for this reason.  It’s at this time the biggest difference between
    the wear w/ sythetics and fossils are probably seen.

    As for the cost…  come on, it’s only $3-$5/qt for good sythetics (Mobil 1,
    Redline, Castrol, Pennzoil, etc).  Even if you change your oil every 3,000
    miles (which really isn’t necessary, easpecially when using sythetics which
    don’t break down as much at high temps as fossils), that’s only $13-$25
    difference every 3,000 miles (approx every 2 months, the way I drive) over
    fossil oils. Very cheap insurance, in my mind.

    But maybe as a Porsche ehtusiast, I’m just overly anal with my car.  I’ve
    seen plenty of 944 engines make 200,000 miles on fossil oils.  Still, $90
    extra a year seems petty to me when it comes to possible multy-thousand
    dollar repairs.

    Matthew

    —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—–
    http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  3. There was a big stink about rental cars going 15-20K in milege without oil
    changes. I’ve been in a GM plant and they use synthetic as break in oil. Also
    under testing of crude vs. synthetic, the crude’s viscosity broke down in 6-7k
    miles where the syntehtic went 25k without breaking down. At one time some
    source recommended changing filter @ 3k miles and adding a quart until 25k
    then a complete filter and fluid change was necessary.

    Overly anal? Naw! Change (oil)  is good!

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:19:06 GMT, mkra…@netonecom.net wrote:
    >In article <19980924042128.02285.00001…@ng27.aol.com>,
    >  thepla…@aol.com (ThePlayur) wrote:

    >> I’ve noticed everyone talking about how Mobile 1 synthetic is an excellent
    >oil.
    >>  I’ve been using Pennzoil 10w-30 and I’m thinking about changing to the Mobile
    >> since my car has about 150k miles.  My question is, is it really worth the
    >> extra $3/quart?  Anyone notice a difference on wear?

    >In my opinion (which can be far from humble), any sythetic is leaps and
    >bounds better than dead dino oils.  The basic premis is that a fossil oil
    >starts its "life" as a mess of many different chemicals, chock full of
    >impurities.  The multiple refining processes are there to remove all the
    >impurities they can (which can hinder lubricant abilities, and some even
    >dangerous enough on their own in a high-friction, high-pressure, soft-metal
    >situation), then goes throguh further processing to try to take out and add
    >compounds to produce a sludge that holds a given consistancy over a certain
    >temperature range.

    >A synthetic, on the other hand, starts its life as a pure, "benign"
    >substance, to which other pure compounds are added in a prescribed and
    >controlled manner to produce a lubricrant that also holds a given consistancy
    >over a certain temperature range.  The exact ingredients are known, as are
    >their lubricant/temperature qualities.      Nothing is left to circumstance.

    >A fossil oil can still contain many unnecessary, and possibly harmful
    >ingredients that aren’t removed in the refining process.

    >Not to mention, the consistancy of sythetics can be controlled so well, that
    >they have been designed to flow at room temperature and below (ie, the temp
    >of your motor at start-up, when there is minimal lubrication in the engine
    >and oil needs to be introduced as quickly as possible).  As those cheesy ad
    >compaigns remind us time and time again, starting and stopping is hard on
    >motors, for this reason.  It’s at this time the biggest difference between
    >the wear w/ sythetics and fossils are probably seen.

    >As for the cost…  come on, it’s only $3-$5/qt for good sythetics (Mobil 1,
    >Redline, Castrol, Pennzoil, etc).  Even if you change your oil every 3,000
    >miles (which really isn’t necessary, easpecially when using sythetics which
    >don’t break down as much at high temps as fossils), that’s only $13-$25
    >difference every 3,000 miles (approx every 2 months, the way I drive) over
    >fossil oils. Very cheap insurance, in my mind.

    >But maybe as a Porsche ehtusiast, I’m just overly anal with my car.  I’ve
    >seen plenty of 944 engines make 200,000 miles on fossil oils.  Still, $90
    >extra a year seems petty to me when it comes to possible multy-thousand
    >dollar repairs.

    >Matthew

    >—–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—–
    >http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum

    RoCks (Atlanta)
    88′ Commemorative Edition 911 Targa 3.2/G-50

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  4. On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:19:06 GMT, mkra…@netonecom.net wrote:

    >A synthetic, on the other hand, starts its life as a pure, "benign"
    >substance, to which other pure compounds are added in a prescribed and
    >controlled manner to produce a lubricrant that also holds a given consistancy
    >over a certain temperature range.  The exact ingredients are known, as are
    >their lubricant/temperature qualities.      Nothing is left to circumstance.

    "Synthetic" name has you confused.  These oils start out life as dino
    derivitives,  then go through extra steps where all the bad stuff is
    removed and better stuff is added in.  Talk with somebody else in the
    petro business and they’ll help you understand.

    We are paying for extra steps in refining and blending,  plus the
    additives.  Worth it, in my opinion.

    dr bob

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  5. Dr. Bob wrote:
    > On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:19:06 GMT, mkra…@netonecom.net wrote:
    > >A synthetic, on the other hand, starts its life as a pure, "benign"
    > >substance, to which other pure compounds are added in a prescribed and
    > >controlled manner …  The exact ingredients are known, as are
    > >their lubricant/temperature qualities. Nothing is left to circumstance.
    > "Synthetic" name has you confused.  These oils start out life as dino
    > derivitives,  then go through extra steps where all the bad stuff is
    > removed and better stuff is added in.

    According to a page at the Mobil web site:

    "A fully synthetic motor oil is created from two synthetic base
    fluids — polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters — combined with a
    unique balanced additive package.  PAOs are made by chemically
    knitting molecules of ethylene into carbon chains of uniform length
    and shape that are able to remain liquid and slippery under the
    widest range of engine conditions.  The PAOs are combined with an
    ester (a compound formed from the reaction of alcohol and certain
    acids) to provide the best performance properties for engine
    lubricants."

    The web page is referenced from:

            http://www.mobil.com/oneracing/about/why/index.html

    Walt

    Walt Spector
    (w…@sgi.com)
    Mountain View, California
    .– -…. .– …

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  6. On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:53:32 -0700, Walter Spector

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    <w…@w6ws.corp.sgi.com> wrote:
    >Dr. Bob wrote:
    >> On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:19:06 GMT, mkra…@netonecom.net wrote:
    >> >A synthetic, on the other hand, starts its life as a pure, "benign"
    >> >substance, to which other pure compounds are added in a prescribed and
    >> >controlled manner …  The exact ingredients are known, as are
    >> >their lubricant/temperature qualities. Nothing is left to circumstance.
    >> "Synthetic" name has you confused.  These oils start out life as dino
    >> derivitives,  then go through extra steps where all the bad stuff is
    >> removed and better stuff is added in.

    >According to a page at the Mobil web site:

    >"A fully synthetic motor oil is created from two synthetic base
    >fluids — polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters — combined with a
    >unique balanced additive package.  PAOs are made by chemically
    >knitting molecules of ethylene into carbon chains of uniform length
    >and shape that are able to remain liquid and slippery under the
    >widest range of engine conditions.  The PAOs are combined with an
    >ester (a compound formed from the reaction of alcohol and certain
    >acids) to provide the best performance properties for engine
    >lubricants."

    >The web page is referenced from:

    >    http://www.mobil.com/oneracing/about/why/index.html

    >Walt

    I think I summarized that in the statement above:

            "These oils start out life as dino derivitives,  then go
             through extra steps where all the bad stuff is
            removed and better stuff is added in."

    Is there some possible confusion about the source of the
    ‘polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters’ mentioned in the Mobil
    description?

    dr bob

    ‘there’s a little bit of barney in almost everything’

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  7. Synthetic is synthetic, not highly refined mineral oil.  Another place
    to look is http://www.amsoil.com.  I believe Redline also has a site.


    Ed

    "The longer I live, the more I learn.  The more I learn, the more I
    know.
    The more I know, the more I realize how little I really know!"

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  8. Maybe that Castrol or Valvoline mix. But Mobil 1 and Amsoil IS PURE SYNTHETIC
    DOC!

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:43:22 GMT, n…@address.available (Dr. Bob) wrote:
    >On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:53:32 -0700, Walter Spector
    ><w…@w6ws.corp.sgi.com> wrote:

    >>Dr. Bob wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:19:06 GMT, mkra…@netonecom.net wrote:
    >>> >A synthetic, on the other hand, starts its life as a pure, "benign"
    >>> >substance, to which other pure compounds are added in a prescribed and
    >>> >controlled manner …  The exact ingredients are known, as are
    >>> >their lubricant/temperature qualities. Nothing is left to circumstance.
    >>> "Synthetic" name has you confused.  These oils start out life as dino
    >>> derivitives,  then go through extra steps where all the bad stuff is
    >>> removed and better stuff is added in.

    >>According to a page at the Mobil web site:

    >>"A fully synthetic motor oil is created from two synthetic base
    >>fluids — polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters — combined with a
    >>unique balanced additive package.  PAOs are made by chemically
    >>knitting molecules of ethylene into carbon chains of uniform length
    >>and shape that are able to remain liquid and slippery under the
    >>widest range of engine conditions.  The PAOs are combined with an
    >>ester (a compound formed from the reaction of alcohol and certain
    >>acids) to provide the best performance properties for engine
    >>lubricants."

    >>The web page is referenced from:

    >>        http://www.mobil.com/oneracing/about/why/index.html

    >>Walt

    >I think I summarized that in the statement above:

    >    "These oils start out life as dino derivitives,  then go
    >     through extra steps where all the bad stuff is
    >    removed and better stuff is added in."

    >Is there some possible confusion about the source of the
    >’polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters’ mentioned in the Mobil
    >description?

    >dr bob

    >’there’s a little bit of barney in almost everything’

    RoCks (Atlanta)
    1988 Signature Edition 911 Targa 3.2/G-50
    250000 Porsche 911 Jubilaums Sonderserie My:88

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  9. On Thu, 01 Oct 1998 05:29:27 GMT, an393…@anon.penet.fi (RoCks)
    wrote:

    >Maybe that Castrol or Valvoline mix. But Mobil 1 and Amsoil IS PURE SYNTHETIC
    >DOC!

    The original question was whether or not the synthetic WILL mix with
    the standard oil,  and the answer is YES.

    The discussion deteriorated to what makes an oil "synthetic."  One
    person suggests that the ingredients listed on Mobil’s website
    indicate that the Mobil-1 product (and I think he mentioned Redline
    and Amsoil also) does not come from petroleum stocks.  I disagreed,
    since the ingredients listed don’t come from water, dirt, or plants,
    but are typically "created" ("synthesized??")  from petroleum stocks.

    I’m sure that if you read the Mobil-1 bottle,  you’ll find that it
    says that it is compatible with conventional oils.

    dr bob

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  10. Dr. Bob wrote:
    > The discussion deteriorated to what makes an oil "synthetic."  One
    > person suggests that the ingredients listed on Mobil’s website
    > indicate that the Mobil-1 product (and I think he mentioned Redline
    > and Amsoil also) does not come from petroleum stocks.

    If you re-read my post, you will see that I made no such claim.
    Merely contribution.

    >  I disagreed,
    > since the ingredients listed don’t come from water, dirt, or plants,
    > but are typically "created" ("synthesized??")  from petroleum stocks.

    (Actually alcohol and various esters are routinely made from a
    variety of non-dino sources…)  However if you care to look at:

            http://www.mobil.com/oneracing/about/products/engineoil/10w_30/index….

    you would find the following statement:

    > The Mobil 1 Series motor oils are blends of synthesized hydrocarbon fluids (SHF’s) and
    >     esters derived from petrochemicals.  While they appear chemically similar to mineral oils
    >     refined from crude, they are pure chemicals which do not contain the impurities or waxes
    >     inherent in conventional mineral oils.

    Seems clear to me.

    Walt

    Walt Spector
    (w…@sgi.com)
    Mountain View, California
    .– -…. .– …

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

  11. Mobil 1 is compatible with conventional oils.  The two mix quite well and do
    not at all try to separate.  I experimented with this completely by
    necessity.  I was on a road trip, a quart low and the only decent quality
    oil I could find was Havoline.  I forgot to throw my usual spare quart of
    oil in the back just for emergencies.  I was a bit leery of mixing the two,
    but there was no Mobil 1 to be found at a truckstop in the middle of nowhere
    section of I-10 through Mississippi.  I had maybe a teaspoon full from a
    Mobil 1 bottle in the rear storage bin.  My N/A 944 is an ‘87 and pushing
    130,000 miles without ever having the engine rebuilt.  It burns about a
    quart of oil between each 6,000 mile oil change.  I bought one of those
    souvenir shot glasses from the truckstop and poured a small amount of both
    oils in the glass.  I waited and the oils blended perfectly.   There is a
    slight color difference in the two, and they never separated.  I reluctantly
    poured the Havoline in with the Mobil 1 and drove it another 1,000 miles
    before changing oil again.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Dr. Bob wrote in message <3613bf63.11891…@news.earthlink.net>…
    >On Thu, 01 Oct 1998 05:29:27 GMT, an393…@anon.penet.fi (RoCks)
    >wrote:

    >>Maybe that Castrol or Valvoline mix. But Mobil 1 and Amsoil IS PURE
    SYNTHETIC
    >>DOC!

    >The original question was whether or not the synthetic WILL mix with
    >the standard oil,  and the answer is YES.

    >The discussion deteriorated to what makes an oil "synthetic."  One
    >person suggests that the ingredients listed on Mobil’s website
    >indicate that the Mobil-1 product (and I think he mentioned Redline
    >and Amsoil also) does not come from petroleum stocks.  I disagreed,
    >since the ingredients listed don’t come from water, dirt, or plants,
    >but are typically "created" ("synthesized??")  from petroleum stocks.

    >I’m sure that if you read the Mobil-1 bottle,  you’ll find that it
    >says that it is compatible with conventional oils.

    >dr bob

    Comment by admin — February 6, 2010 @ 7:38 am

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